180 patch suggestions and opinon

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180 patch suggestions and opinon

Post by bananaface » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:02 am

Hello everyone this post is gonna be a wall of text of my opinion about how currently things are on the 180 patch and couple of other things with a lot of bad spelling and awfull grammar.
Been testing on the server pretty frequently and everything you'll see in this post is based on my personal opinion and some talks I had with some other people.
An yes I know the numbers and tweaks aint final but it is based on what I see right now on the 180 test server.
And I'm saying it again and I think I speak for most people, thanks for the tremendous amount of effort you've put in it and it's looking great.

For me I play this game and on this server because it's fast straight into action with no need to camp, that's what UT is about else I'd play some shitty modern shooter.
There are a few things that have me a bit concerned that will change that playstyle into camping wich I personally don't like.
Certain things I'll discuss in detail others I'll keep short.

Rarity of infinity pu's.
Yes this is a hot topic of debate and I'm gonna dive straight into it aswell.
The intention behind making infinity pu's rare is good but I don't think it is the means to achieve the goal you're trying to achieve.
Here is what happens if you make them rare or even remove them:
- People are gonna camp to regen ammo when they are out of ammo because resupply (skill and PU) cannot sustain you.
- Defeats the purpose of building a weapon, unless you expect everyone to make two of them. WoP with no ammo is worthless.
- Inf stacking x2 with a high rarity will lead to people hoarding infs and not sharing for their own benefits, wich causes drama and also defeats the purpose of sharing and playing as a team.
- The server will become like most other servers where ammo is an issue and people are discouraged to play there (new and old).
- Deemers and the likes are gonna be the weapons of choice because the regular weapons will have the same ammo limitations but provide a lot less power.
- You're gonna need 5 people throwing ammo bags at someone to sustain his ammo, 1 person will have fun the other 5 won't.
For those reasons I'd keep infs as they are on 179.

Turrets.
I think they are a really great especially for low level players so they can get some kills in and it's something I requested in my first post.
However, there are some issues with turrets.
I get the limitation of 3 turrets total for all players combined on a single map so that the map doesn't crawl with turrets all over the place.
Thing is though, one person can quickly put down 3 turrets and the rest of the players can't have anything wich doesn't really work for me.
Also turrets are way to powerfull atm, they oneshot most monsters and are to easy to replace.
You can put down 3 turrets and just go afk and just put down new ones every now and then and you can complete a map without having picked up a single pu or fired a single shot (I've done it several times).
This also leads to camping wich you might get by now, I'm not a big fan about.
I suggest changing the limit of turrets to 1 per person, making them less powerfull in damage, smaller in size and no limit for how many turrets there can be on the map.
That way they don't become the main tool to kill monsters and everyone can have one.

Supply drop.
The concept is great but again it encourages you to camp.
Imo it should be there as a support tool for low levels that are hiding in the later waves, not something you want all players hanging around to sustain their ammo.
I'm sorry to say this but in it's current state I'd rather see this removed and I can't think of anything to change to make it worth having in the game.

Broken arrow.
Well the name of it says it all, it's broken.
Hardest wave is coming? No problem we skip half of it or more by using a single item.
I don't like "I win buttons".

Artilary strike.
Ramp up time is to long to be effective, only is effective if you put it down and camp out till it finally starts hitting monsters after half a minute.
Would rather see it as the air strike superweapon with a long cooldown but I guess it would do pretty much the same as a nuke bomb.

Vehicles and vehicle drop.
Entering and leaving a vehicle doubles your fire speed.
Vehicles are mainly used to make a base rather then drive and kill in them.
Dieing in a vehicle makes you lose all your weapons and pu's, also after dieing and still resurrecting with the ressurect skill.

Ammo bags.
I'm not gonna run around after people and throw bags at them, nor do I want to throw bags on the ground for myself to regen ammo.

Dinosaurs.
1 hit they're dead, do no considerable damage, low fire rate and there is a wave with just dino's in them.

Heal PU.
Had a talk with Amy about this that it sometimes doesn't work and sometimes it does or sometimes does the opposite on yourself.
She told me that you don't really know what is causing this so I came up with an idea.
Make a PU that removes damage done to yourself with the weapon you're using it on.
Would fix the heal PU issue and it's a great thing to have on like a deemer aswell.

Xp.
Since the latest update you get crazy xp from kill combo's.
Go on a holy shit streak and you level up every couple of seconds, even at level 200+.
I don't think this is intended ofcourse but I just wanted to point it out here on the forum aswell.

Obama.
I understand you wanna do something cool with this monster and the idea about the stealing the weapon and buying the membership to avoid it.
But, losing your weapon with all the pu's you've worked "hard" to collect is not just death for the wave you lose your weapon but also for all waves afterwards unless you want people to build multiple weapons.
I know you can buy a skill to avoid this from happening but I just don't think its practical to have a monster with this kind of ability in the first place.

I wont discuss weapons for now since it's planned to be rebalanced in the 181 patch I think? If not just say so and I'll make another wall of text.
I just hope that the combat shotgun does get nerfed in 180 prior to the other weapons being rebalanced.
Nerfed as in less procs and then the weapon is fine.

There might be things I forgot so if I remember them I'll post them later on.
I know things I've said in this post won't be populair with everyone and it sounds like a lot of hatin but don't take me wrong on it.
I'm not good with codes and bugs and all that kind of stuff, so for me testing is seeing if the gameplay is right, balanced and mainly if it's fun.



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Re: 180 patch suggestions and opinon

Post by Mobster » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:09 pm

bananaface wrote:Rarity of infinity pu's.
Yes this is a hot topic of debate and I'm gonna dive straight into it aswell.
The intention behind making infinity pu's rare is good but I don't think it is the means to achieve the goal you're trying to achieve.
Here is what happens if you make them rare or even remove them:
- People are gonna camp to regen ammo when they are out of ammo because resupply (skill and PU) cannot sustain you.
- Defeats the purpose of building a weapon, unless you expect everyone to make two of them. WoP with no ammo is worthless.
- Inf stacking x2 with a high rarity will lead to people hoarding infs and not sharing for their own benefits, wich causes drama and also defeats the purpose of sharing and playing as a team.
- The server will become like most other servers where ammo is an issue and people are discouraged to play there (new and old).
- Deemers and the likes are gonna be the weapons of choice because the regular weapons will have the same ammo limitations but provide a lot less power.
- You're gonna need 5 people throwing ammo bags at someone to sustain his ammo, 1 person will have fun the other 5 won't.
For those reasons I'd keep infs as they are on 179.
The issues this brings up are debatable, and the PU drop rate is set in stone. :|
bananaface wrote:Turrets.
I think they are a really great especially for low level players so they can get some kills in and it's something I requested in my first post.
However, there are some issues with turrets.
I get the limitation of 3 turrets total for all players combined on a single map so that the map doesn't crawl with turrets all over the place.
Thing is though, one person can quickly put down 3 turrets and the rest of the players can't have anything wich doesn't really work for me.
Also turrets are way to powerfull atm, they oneshot most monsters and are to easy to replace.
You can put down 3 turrets and just go afk and just put down new ones every now and then and you can complete a map without having picked up a single pu or fired a single shot (I've done it several times).
This also leads to camping wich you might get by now, I'm not a big fan about.
I suggest changing the limit of turrets to 1 per person, making them less powerfull in damage, smaller in size and no limit for how many turrets there can be on the map.
That way they don't become the main tool to kill monsters and everyone can have one.
Its throwing tons of errors, and will be taken out of 180 for rework in future patches.
bananaface wrote:Supply drop.
The concept is great but again it encourages you to camp.
Imo it should be there as a support tool for low levels that are hiding in the later waves, not something you want all players hanging around to sustain their ammo.
I'm sorry to say this but in it's current state I'd rather see this removed and I can't think of anything to change to make it worth having in the game.
As I said before the majority of players strategy is to camp and make a base as it is.
I personally see no shame camping in a team play PVE environment. That doesn't mean we should limit an effect strategy for the players who are in favor of it.
bananaface wrote:Broken arrow.
Well the name of it says it all, it's broken.
Hardest wave is coming? No problem we skip half of it or more by using a single item.
I don't like "I win buttons".
Okay so you have one less wave out of 20. When I have seen it in the later waves (when people should use it), it only kills a certain percent of the monsters and you still have to finish unless you time it right.
The commander level for it should be higher anyways.
bananaface wrote:Artilary strike.
Ramp up time is to long to be effective, only is effective if you put it down and camp out till it finally starts hitting monsters after half a minute.
Would rather see it as the air strike superweapon with a long cooldown but I guess it would do pretty much the same as a nuke bomb.
That could be looked into.
bananaface wrote:Vehicles and vehicle drop.
Entering and leaving a vehicle doubles your fire speed.
Vehicles are mainly used to make a base rather then drive and kill in them.
Dieing in a vehicle makes you lose all your weapons and pu's, also after dieing and still resurrecting with the ressurect skill.
The vehicles are just kinda of a throw in. I see no problem with the monster block strategy. Those are some serious bugs that we have always had, and even may be difficult to solve.
bananaface wrote:Ammo bags.
I'm not gonna run around after people and throw bags at them, nor do I want to throw bags on the ground for myself to regen ammo.
The ammo bags do need tweaking and more thought. The classes are not finished and were intended to be finished in a future patch.
bananaface wrote:Dinosaurs.
1 hit they're dead, do no considerable damage, low fire rate and there is a wave with just dino's in them.
Fixable. The monsters need further tweaks to difficulty before release as it is.
bananaface wrote:Heal PU.
Had a talk with Amy about this that it sometimes doesn't work and sometimes it does or sometimes does the opposite on yourself.
She told me that you don't really know what is causing this so I came up with an idea.
Make a PU that removes damage done to yourself with the weapon you're using it on.
Would fix the heal PU issue and it's a great thing to have on like a deemer aswell.
Most likely to be looked into at a future patch.
bananaface wrote:Xp.
Since the latest update you get crazy xp from kill combo's.
Go on a holy shit streak and you level up every couple of seconds, even at level 200+.
I don't think this is intended ofcourse but I just wanted to point it out here on the forum aswell.
Will be tweaked before release of 180.
bananaface wrote:Obama.
I understand you wanna do something cool with this monster and the idea about the stealing the weapon and buying the membership to avoid it.
But, losing your weapon with all the pu's you've worked "hard" to collect is not just death for the wave you lose your weapon but also for all waves afterwards unless you want people to build multiple weapons.
I know you can buy a skill to avoid this from happening but I just don't think its practical to have a monster with this kind of ability in the first place.
Also set in stone for 180.
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Re: 180 patch suggestions and opinon

Post by bananaface » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:13 pm

Its throwing tons of errors, and will be taken out of 180 for rework in future patches.
Alright sweet.
But I'm just a bit curious, you wanna put in turrets but there is no monter tongue. Is it due to certain monsters having nukes and stuff?
As I said before the majority of players strategy is to camp and make a base as it is.
I personally see no shame camping in a team play PVE environment. That doesn't mean we should limit an effect strategy for the players who are in favor of it.
Yeah neither do I see shame in it don't get me wrong, but I just don't like camping to become mandatory.
I think a lot of people don't wanna be camping and wanna be viable being out in the field all day and that is my main concern.
Okay so you have one less wave out of 20. When I have seen it in the later waves (when people should use it), it only kills a certain percent of the monsters and you still have to finish unless you time it right.
The commander level for it should be higher anyways.
Well if you have 1 less wave then why not just skip 1 wave and get rid of the item.
Even if its just a certain percentage of monsters it's still to powerfull in my opinion even if it were just for level 300+ players or even higher.
The ammo bags do need tweaking and more thought. The classes are not finished and were intended to be finished in a future patch.
In my opinion, support should provide utility in a different way.
Ammo regen is either to important that everyone takes it or it's useless and no one takes it.
I think what you can do with classes is that when they reach the highest level of their class they get an aura around them that gives a passive bonus for the player and the players around him.

So you could do something like this:
Medic
Rank 1: medic gun maker, this gun is always a weapon of power
Rank 2: medic gun heals 150 health past max health
Rank 3: deploy a field medic droid or w/e that heals a nearby allie for x seconds and is gone afterwards and has a cooldown.
Rank 4: health regen aura

Damage dealer
Rank 1: turns a weapon into a weapon of power and increases its damage output by x% but can't be tossed
Rank 2: further increases the damage bonus of the weapon
Rank 3: weapon is now tossable
Rank 4: damage bonus aura

Tank
Rank 1: shield gun main fire now always acts as if you have the PU (forgot name) and turns into a weapon of power
Rank 2: shield gun alt fire reduces your damage taken by x% while it lasts.
Rank 3: deployable temporary team shield
Rank 4: damage reduction aura

Support
Rank 1: turns your weapon into a sturdy light version of it and a weapon of power, increasing your movement speed and giving the sturdy effect
Rank 2: movement speed is increased further
Rank 3: deployable turret (when its fixed)
Rank 4: movement speed and sturdy aura

Just some ideas.
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Re: 180 patch suggestions and opinon

Post by Mobster » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:38 pm

bananaface wrote: But I'm just a bit curious, you wanna put in turrets but there is no monter tongue. Is it due to certain monsters having nukes and stuff?
Joey has plans to do it his own way in the future (Monster Tongue).
bananaface wrote:In my opinion, support should provide utility in a different way.
Ammo regen is either to important that everyone takes it or it's useless and no one takes it.
I think what you can do with classes is that when they reach the highest level of their class they get an aura around them that gives a passive bonus for the player and the players around him.
Some goods points and ideas. Seems like someone is an RPG player... 8-)
bananaface wrote:So you could do something like this:
Medic
Rank 1: medic gun maker, this gun is always a weapon of power
Rank 2: medic gun heals 150 health past max health
Rank 3: deploy a field medic droid or w/e that heals a nearby allie for x seconds and is gone afterwards and has a cooldown.
Rank 4: health regen aura

Damage dealer
Rank 1: turns a weapon into a weapon of power and increases its damage output by x% but can't be tossed
Rank 2: further increases the damage bonus of the weapon
Rank 3: weapon is now tossable
Rank 4: damage bonus aura

Tank
Rank 1: shield gun main fire now always acts as if you have the PU (forgot name) and turns into a weapon of power
Rank 2: shield gun alt fire reduces your damage taken by x% while it lasts.
Rank 3: deployable temporary team shield
Rank 4: damage reduction aura

Support
Rank 1: turns your weapon into a sturdy light version of it and a weapon of power, increasing your movement speed and giving the sturdy effect
Rank 2: movement speed is increased further
Rank 3: deployable turret (when its fixed)
Rank 4: movement speed and sturdy aura

Just some ideas.
I'm sure these can be played around with too if Joey likes them.
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Re: 180 patch suggestions and opinon

Post by Gothicize » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:05 am

I thought I was able to move post around? Was going to move this into the 180patch part of the forums.

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Re: 180 patch suggestions and opinon

Post by BaronVonRotterdam » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:01 am

Thank you so much for the time and effort your spent on these posts bananaface. Most of these things as Mobster mentioned will probably be addressed in Patch 181, or so. We want to release Patch 180 asap and implementing a lot of these changes now would delay the effort.
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Re: 180 patch suggestions and opinon

Post by bananaface » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:07 pm

BaronVonRotterdam wrote:Thank you so much for the time and effort your spent on these posts bananaface. Most of these things as Mobster mentioned will probably be addressed in Patch 181, or so. We want to release Patch 180 asap and implementing a lot of these changes now would delay the effort.
I just mainly hope that we get to test monster strength before the patch get's released.
Right now only deemer luci is a threat to your life, the rest of the monsters and waves you can get through with a medic gun with no shields and standing still in 1 spot.
Monsters drop like flies and their aim is so of, as if they're both extremely drunk, never used a gun before and are on drugs and when they do finally hit you take 1 dmg. Yes 1 dmg from a flare.
Sure Vader 1shots you but won't hit you most of the times even if you stand still, if you stand still every single attack should land.

Just rather concerned because of how things are with the monsters at this state on the test server and so are others and hope we get to test the monsters at their full capacity before the patch gets released.
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Re: 180 patch suggestions and opinon

Post by Mobster » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:03 pm

bananaface wrote:
BaronVonRotterdam wrote:Thank you so much for the time and effort your spent on these posts bananaface. Most of these things as Mobster mentioned will probably be addressed in Patch 181, or so. We want to release Patch 180 asap and implementing a lot of these changes now would delay the effort.
I just mainly hope that we get to test monster strength before the patch get's released.
Right now only deemer luci is a threat to your life, the rest of the monsters and waves you can get through with a medic gun with no shields and standing still in 1 spot.
Monsters drop like flies and their aim is so of, as if they're both extremely drunk, never used a gun before and are on drugs and when they do finally hit you take 1 dmg. Yes 1 dmg from a flare.
Sure Vader 1shots you but won't hit you most of the times even if you stand still, if you stand still every single attack should land.

Just rather concerned because of how things are with the monsters at this state on the test server and so are others and hope we get to test the monsters at their full capacity before the patch gets released.
That's part of the plan. (y)
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